ToB or not ToB?

November 27, 2013

by Wade Wallace | Photography by Jarrod Partridge

In the week leading up to every edition of the Tour of Bright (ToB) I test my form up a local Melbourne climb called the 1 in 20. Each season I get about 15-20 seconds slower, but every year I to do less and less training because of the shift in priority in cycling takes in my life. That's to be expected, but with the increasing competitiveness of the Tour of Bright, my trend should be reversed if I want to stay with the front bunch -- even if I am dropping in grades.

The Tour of Bright is one of the few weekends per year that I keep sacred. It sets a stake in the sand which keeps me motivated through those cold, dark winter mornings. It’s not so much the race that I love, but more so the process of getting ready for it which I find so intensly satisfying.

I’ve done half decently at the Tour of Bright in the past because of the motivation it instills in me. Many years in the past I’ve raced A-Grade but one edition I raced Masters because that’s where most of my mates were. To me, that’s what it’s all about.

I won my category (Masters 123) that year, but I didn’t feel good about it. Really, I should have been getting spanked in A grade. I have to admit the depth wasn’t overwhelming in Masters, but there were still some good competition.

Since that time I can only begin to describe how much the level in Masters racing has progressed. The depth, the speed, the level of experience, and the professionalism of the teams is outstanding (even though teams racing technically isn’t allowed).

The riders who make their way onto the podium this weekend in Masters A this year will likely place top 10 in Open A category. Which brings me to my point.

To me, the spirit of Masters racing should be riders who are at the same point in their lives and who can dedicate a similar amount of workload towards their cycling. Most people I speak to consider Masters racing to be the category you compete in when you have a family, a career, and manage to fit your cycling in around that. Not a category where the competitors are in still in their 30s and training like they’re full-time athletes. Of course there’s no rule stating this, but in my mind Masters racing should be a place where the “middle aged athlete” can compete against each other on a relatively level playing field and not need to worry about it taking up their life in order to be competitive.

This weekend, the eventual winner of Master’s A will likely be doing no less that 15 hours of training per week and making whatever personal sacrifices that entails (it’s different for everyone). I’ve know of riders training and sleeping in altitude tents, cutting back on work hours, and riders having generous sponsorships that allow them to afford the best equipment and support. And good on him. But is Masters racing the right category to be playing this game in?

The playing field in Masters is not level. Sure everybody has different levels of experience and physiology, but there is a wide variation in the level of commitment that various riders can apply to their racing. Unfortunately the guy who can only afford 10 hours of training per week will never be able to compete with the ones who are “fully committed”.

Should Masters racing start at 40 instead of 30? Would this be the best way to level the playing field to ensure most are at the same point of their lives? My ultimate preference would be having a whereabout system and only allowing 10 hours of training per week (joking of course…well, kind of).

There’s an extraordinary difference between the 30-year-old who is still in his prime and carrying very few responsibilities and a 40-year-old with three kids, a career, and who just wants to compete the best he can on 6-10 hours of riding per week.

Perhaps dropping down to Masters B is the answer? Or would the competitiveness of Masters B would eventually begin to reach new heights?

Previous to this year the Tour of Bright has been categorised into age groups. Changing toward a A, B, C categories seem to be the right step forward into classifying the various levels of ability.

The danger I see in this ultra-competitive Masters racing is that for some people merely participating becomes such an unreachable goal that they stop trying. Should cycling be a sport where at the amateur level the stakes are so high that you need to dedicate 20hrs of training per week just to have a shot at competing?

Don’t get me wrong — I love the competitive spirit that a race like the Tour of Bright brings out in people. I just wonder how healthy it is for the sport and people trying to enjoy it.

Or am I just having a whinge because I can’t compete at the top level anymore? Should I accept that I’ll only be packfill for the rest of my racing life because I’m not willing to make the same personal sacrifices? Should everyone in my shoes accept this? Or should there be a way that separates these ultra-competitve Masters racers from the rest of them? Is a national grading system which places a closer watch on individual’s results be the answer?

Interested in hearing your thoughts.

tags: tour of bright

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The Crankset Blog

In Mountain Biking, at least here in NSW, Masters is generally 40 up, though some races class Masters as 50-60.

30-40 is generally termed Veteran (or sub-veteran for the races where Veteran is 40-50), though two popular series at which I race have no 30-40 category at all, and throw those riders into ‘Open’ or ‘Elite’ categories. I kinda like it. Much less chance of getting a podium, but a different measure of relative performance.

Still, I’ve noticed, like you, that Masters is fiercely competitive, and I’m looking at turning 40 next year with a strange sense of trepidation
ian

You’re having a whinge. Suck it up a drop a grade.
- http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
  
  I could drop to Masters B, but unfortunately it would be called sandbagging then.
  - echidna_sg
    
    just do it and make sure you get dropped, then nobody will complain ;-)
    - jules
      
      i know a lot of us have taken hits to the head at some point, but if you come back and win the next week, people will see through that ;)
      - echidna_sg
        
        true that but ToB is a touch different in terms of parcourse to a crit in the city… you could reasonable expect to be absolute pack fodder one week and a contender the next (in either direction) depending on your genetics…
  - http://weirdtanlines.blogspot.com/ Daniel S
    
    Hmm if you are too good for the grade below then maybe you are in the right grade. Unfortunately, unless you are winning A grade (or Masters A), you will get promoted to your level of mediocrity!
  - donncha
    
    So basically you’re just whinging because you can’t win your correct grade?
    Your ‘Fully Naturalised Aussie’ card is in the post :-)
  - Callum Dwyer
    
    Just sandbag if you want to, it’s not like someone will call the cops if you do.
RomanTheCube

Arguments can be made for all of your points, but I think it would always be far more difficult if you’ve ever been at ‘the top level’ and have to drop down rather than a newbie starting out and looking upwards. At least that way you always feel like you can ‘get better’ and have much better people to look up to? -edit* So what i’m saying is I think you’re having a bit of a sook moment :)
http://www.stevefogg.com Steve Fogg

I think the category should be age graded. Like you said commitments outside of riding impacts at key times in lives. As someone who is just starting out in regular cycling and just starting to feel like I belong both on a fitness level in a group (Maling Room Ride), there is nothing more that will burst my bubble than to see my name next to a 30something punk who can’t possibly considered a real master. Perhaps they could be a young master?
- Tim Rowe
  
  This is why there is Masters 1 (30-34), Masters 2 (35-39), Masters 3 (40-44) etc… yet I can not recall ever seeing major races splitting these categories beyond 12, 123 etc, in 10 or 15 year blocks, even though the number of entrants warrants doing so.
- Notso Swift
  
  Don’t worry about the 30 year old, some of them are just like us. There are some guys knocking 50 who are really serious, only 40, that’s fine, you can line up against Robbie McEwan - the point of Wade’s article
  Ability grading is what happens in Veterans, also a lot of handicap races, it works better than the Masters system of Age grading, I think it is good to see ToB get on board
jules

I think Masters should be 40+, you’re not old until you reach that age. Having said that, as someone who has never raced at the elite or even A grade level, I’m easy about my position in the peloton - I race Masters C. I still don’t win but I know I can if I prepare properly. I don’t get upset about the professionalisation of club cycling - in fact I quite enjoy it. It makes competing and winning more exciting. In my attempts at realising MAMIL cycling glory, I’ve lost cycling friends who don’t want to ride with me anymore - they feel they can’t keep up (not you Steel - we’re still doing Boullie laps when you’re back online). Point being - there’s always someone faster and slower than you. Just slot in where you find yourself, or do the work to improve.
- ben
  
  Maybe if you can bring photos of your kids, wife, mortgage, etc then you can claim Masters category!
  
  I’m a bit surprised that in an endurance sport like cycling that Masters begins at 30+. MdN blogged about it not too long ago, and there’s evidence that performance only really starts to take a hit post 40.
  So, in light of that, Masters should be a proxy for folks who just can’t train as much, rather than an age thing. That and increase the age limit to 40.
  - jules
    
    actually the training book i’m reading says tests show endurance only drops off the cliff at 60. obviously there is a steady decline before then, but most of us are performing so much under our potential that age shouldn’t stop you.
    - Nitro
      
      We like the sound of that training book. I’m working on the theory that I’m getting quicker faster than I’m getting older. Long may that last…
      
      Agree with the central point though - most of us are limited by 1001 things that aren’t age related..
    - http://davidjohnstone.net/ David
      
      The world records for 2000m on a rowing machine are a good demonstration of this: http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/racing/records/world/2000
      
      For males, there is a decline after 40, and this accelerates after 65. Interestingly, the world record for 30–39 is faster than the 19–29 world record (both are held by Rob Waddell).
      - http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
        
        We did an article on performance decline versus age a while back.
        http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/09/what-effect-does-age-really-have-on-cycling-performance/
    - ben
      
      Endurance is one thing, recovery and repair is another.
Kos

I know dozens of 40 year olds who are doing no less than 15 hour weeks, putting out 350 watt FTPs whilst carrying less than 70kgs and race both A Open and Masters A. Thank the success of the sport for a whole bunch of ex full time riders and no so ex full time riders coming back and smashing records. Oh and many of them have kids, work, and have a ton of other non related responsibilities. You only have to look at the results sheet of the Masters A grade ToSW, lots of old buggers in the top 10 and most work 9 to 5 and have kids. Yes some are in their 30s but to the last rider, they all work and view cycling as their hobby, be it a serious hobby. Faster speeds, faster riders does not mean they dont fit your descriptor of what a Masters rider should be, it just means they are good and fit their training in when they can. If you cant race against these guys, then do what most have to do, drop down a grade :)
- OverIt
  
  Would be interesting to know if their wives and kids feel like they are getting ‘enough time’ from Husband/Dad… I doubt it.
  - Minimus
    
    Absolutely, and I find that really really sad. Why do guys get a ‘mid life crisis’ that requires training to the detriment of family time? I thinking racing is for people pre-family, and then family should become 1st priority. But I’m a mum not the dad. Maybe its just escapism and an identity crisis post kids for dads?
- Notso Swift
  
  Hang on Kos - You would be one of those blokes wouldn’t you!!
Dave Hunt

I have seen as well the increasing depth in Masters racing over the years, and agree that to be competitive you need a minimum of 12 hours plus a week of training, and good luck to those guys who can. The increasing fields in Gran Fondos and charity rides indicates that a lot of guys can ride and enjoy the competitive spirit without having to sacrifice large portions of their lives. This is what we do for fun right
lefthandside

Wade, you raise some really good points here, not least of which is the practice of teams racing in what are meant to be individual events. I know the trend is towards this, and I have heard one expert suggest that in a few years all amateur races will be team events only in Australia. A topic for another day, perhaps.

I fit into your category of cyclists ‘in their prime’ who will be racing Masters. However, I’m still confident that I’m in the right grade. Last year I raced open C and it was chaos - I’m hoping the masters are less hectic in a bunch. As for my supposed advantages, well I am younger than a lot of the people in my grade and, but I too have to fit in 12-14 hours a week of training around regular > 50 hour work weeks.

One big advantage for me is that I don’t have kids. For me, the next couple of years before that happens are my opportunity to get as fit as I possibly can! To that end, I don’t see how any parent could maintain cycling fitness without an indoor trainer - what a time/life saving device.

There is inevitably going to be inequality between competitors - in terms of age (recovery), equipment (particularly in a TT), time for training etc but I do know that the Masters guys are crafty, some of them are strong as bulls, and the main thing is they know how to race… perhaps experience counts for something?
hatesandbaggers

I have, sadly, become one of the many I know who are no longer racing because if this same competitiveness. People racing in wrong grades, AKA sandbagging, is a MASSIVE problem in amateur racing in Australia. And when writing to CA or CV about this issue, they say “what can we do”… does that sound proactive?
- Tim Rowe
  
  We should stop calling sandbagging sandbagging and be calling it what it really is: “Cheating”.
  - you can’t win
    
    so what is a former a-grade rider that is not up to snuff anymore to do? be accused of cheating or get shelled at the merest hint of a climb in open competition?
    
    Sandbagging is common in all amateur sports, it is what it is! if you only ride to win, then cycling is the wrong sport for you… where I’m living, a local team has the habit of flying in a few pro-conti riders to contest events along a couple of UCI persona-non-grata types that are seen regularly at the front of the etape are racing in strictly amateur events… still others put a large slice of their strongest riders into lower grades to ensure podiums… what can you do? refuse to enter? step down a grade as a team and then get accused of sand bagging?
    - Tim Rowe
      
      If you’re *legitimately* no longer competitive in that grade, then what’s the problem? Race in the grade that’s appropriate. When people want to move down in grade at events where I’m RD or Comm, my rule is “first show me you’re uncompetitive” - ie, I need to have seen that they’re uncompetitive before they move. In the clear majority of cases where people ask to drop grades and they’re allowed to do so, they end up at the pointy end of the lower grade they’ve moved to.
      
      Ultimately though grading is not a hard thing to get right, having been very successful at it when it’s enforced in MTB, and having done it in other sports. It amazes me how much CV have been able to screw it up.
      - you can’t win
        
        fair comments! at the end of the day, proving your legitimacy in stepping down a grade and not facing a barrage of accusations from those in the pack is the difficult bit..
      - Rosco
        
        CV should start to get this right soon.
        I’ve raced every event in the state series this year, the grading system they have is an excellent development. There have really only be a couple of examples of sandbaggers in B grade that I have seen. Nothing compared to the top 20 at Bright in “individual A” last year.
        
        Given that, it will take a couple of years for it to be spot on.
Craig Hoskin

Do you not have 5 yr age group for Masters? eg depending onthe size of the field, we will often have M1 (35-39), M2 (40-44), M3 (45-49) etc etc. Thus we are only ever racing against someone of our own “category”
- jules
  
  But as Wade said, age is not a great leveler. Chris Horner won the Vuelta this year at 41 yrs old. What matters is your preparation. Many Masters riders have greater time pressures, but not all. Having grades by training load sounds logical but is obviously impracticable.
  - Craig Hoskin
    
    Yup exactly, leveling based on some arbitary set of supposed constraints (do we say “right everyone who went to Uni and has a Grad degree you obviously earn more, therefore buy better bikes and are therefore faster … you are Level 1″ … or “You have 2 Girls for children and they cost more and involve more than 2 boys you are Level 2″ … sarcasm filter on for those :) ) is nearly impossible.
    If you have no hard comparative data (eg if people come from out of town, out of state, out of country .. ) how on earth will you grade them other than by their age? If some other measure isnt practicable then it cant be used.
    
    I guess the only true answer is to have Cat level licensing/grading for Masters nationwide like they do in the US (I thought they did in Australia as well?)
    - jules
      
      you’re last sentence is the answer. it can be done. the data is out there for most people - it just needs to be organised and collated. no one has bothered to do that - that’s the problem.
      - Sean Doyle
        
        THIS!!!! The Cat system is what we desperately need in this country. I’ve been crowing about it for years now. Just have Cat 1 to 5 and you race against guys of equivalent ability with no age brought into it. I think a 3 month rolling system of grading from results so you are racing a Cat grade at your current level. Only have age divisions at Metro, State and National championships. With the technology of both permanently issued transponders and programing, there is no excuse for results to be collected automatically and updated before we even get home from racing. Unfortunately it’s a move that has to come from the very top and up till now CA has been very reluctant to pursue it.
        
        Masters definitely is raising it’s level each season. I went from Mas B to Mas A last year with a lot of hard work and averaged 10-12 hours per week. I was not winning Mas A but I know I wasn’t to far from the front of the field.
        
        It really depends where your priorities are. I’m trying to make up for the lack of training discipline I had in my 20′s. Now with the full complement of responsibilities it’s time that is the biggest hurdle. Training smart and not racing every race through out the year keeps me from fatiguing out the season. I probably race half the opens available and I often give weekend club racing a miss.
        
        I’m determined to stay in Mas A for as long as I can. In B the bunches are bigger (I’ve seen up 90-110 in Mas B) and and lot more chaotic ie. recently late starter to racing with too much bravado.
      - Paul Yeatman
        
        Alternatively, weigh riders pre-race and load them up with weights so everyone and their bike, weighs 100kg.
  - Abdu
    
    Didn’t Richie Porte win ToB a few years ago from B grade? Bloody sandbagger!
Nick

great thoughts Wade.
i would think at worst a state-wide points system that scores you on races, field strength & results would be amazing - especially if every club could tap into it fr entries and this eliminated the “but B grade at race X is like A grade at race Y” mentality.
These systems exist, it’s about access and use.
Andy Logan

I am actually on the other end of this, I am 29 currently and eligible for a Masters license next year for M1, which I am looking forward to getting the license.

Main reason being is that I race in “elite” currently and for the most part it’s pretty hard going, I race against guys that work part time in a bike shop, don’t have a child (like I do), don’t work full time 50+ hours week in a bank and train 20+ hours a week, unlike the 10 hours if I am lucky.

So while I might be only 30, I have the same pressures as a 40yr old person, so personally I am looking forward to racing against other Masters who have the same challenges that I do.
- Kev Eddy
  
  All that and you STILL can’t grow a decent moustache.
icon

AUSSIE Masters swimming provides a good model. You compete in the pool against other swimmers who are of similar speed, but then you are ranked against others in your age group. Doesn’t the CA grading into Masters 1-10 already allow for that, after the A/B/C/D races are ridden?
Scott McGrory

The first thing the UCI should do is drop the ‘Masters’ tag, call it Veterans and raise the age to 40. If you’re under 40 and riding Masters A then you need to have a good look at yourself. That’s what Elite B or C is for!
- Robert Merkel
  
  I’m tempted to agree, but it wouldn’t actually solve anything.
- rosco
  
  Racing this year, I noticed B grade fields were rather small at state opens. Most of the riders that made up the field in previous years were racing Masters grades at opens.
- scottmanning
  
  Very good point. There IS a class outside of Elite A. Maybe they just don’t want to pay for the Elite licence….
- Notso Swift
  
  There is already Veterans Racing n Australia, there has been for many years
  Historically it was fro Retired Pro’s who were not welcome back in the ACF (CA) fold after giving up the “Pro” status. These days it is more people who can’t be bothered with some of the officialdom and just want to race, although a lot (like me) have two licenses.
  
  Since they were old Pro’s one thing that did change from the Pro days is a reasonable cut of the pool ;-)
Tim Rowe

The problem with all of this is that at a domestic levels, very few people are ruled out of the eligibility rules regarding Masters (ie, riders on Elite international licenses who therefore can’t race Masters). They are otherwise eligible to race either Elite or Masters.

Perhaps the better solution would be that Masters 1, Masters 2 (what we in MTB have between them as Vets), Masters 3 and Masters 4 become distinct categories in these large events? But what then happens of the B and C grade riders, who are still not competitive in any of these categories?

The problem ultimately comes down to “how many grades do you want to run?”
Without a doubt, grades at ToB are a bit of a farce - A grade club riders dropping to C grade for ToB and whatnot. People who are B and C grade everywhere else without question being in C at best.

As with many problems, there are many, many potential answers, and no one right solution. Where you should spare a thought is for the riders aged 23-29 - those forced to not only race Elite, but buy an Elite license, even though they know full well they’ll never be above E, D or C grade - but due to their age have no choice but to pay the extra $80 or whatever it is this year an Elite CA license costs above a Masters license just because of their age - even though they otherwise do exactly the same racing as another Masters rider, and aren’t competitive either, but do it for love of the sport.
- jules
  
  I race Masters but have an Elite license - it said you needed one to enter state open events. Did I read that wrong?
  - Andy Logan
    
    You need it to race any “elite” events. E.g. in NSW we have the Elite race down in Nowra after the TTT, the Elite race is 90km vs the Masters 70kms for example. As I understand you can still enter Open’s from what I believe.
    - Paul Yeatman
      
      I’ve got a masters licence and have “contested” the state TT champs at Emu Creek these last two years.
Jack Spoke

Nice article. I train 10 hours per week almost year around. At almost 50, that is what life allows in terms of time and I am happy with that. I wish I could ride more but I would have to cut elsewhere like time with family. Not worth it for me. Master’s racing is fun no matter where I place. I am just happy to be there and not on the couch like many others my age.
- Nitro
  
  Excellent response, and excellent attitude. I’m 42, have only been riding 3 years, but i’m loving it…
  
  To be in total denial that I’m getting older, to be fitter than I was 20 years ago, to have friends that I ride with, to be involved in a sport that you can still enjoy well into “later years” - what could be better?
  
  Great to see the passionate debate - and thanks to CT for bringing this topic up - but I hope that people don’t lose sight of why we first climbed on a bike in the first place - the freedom, the friends, the fitness - as it says as the top of the screen right now “The beauty of cycling”
  
  Yes - be competitive, yes strive to be better, but don’t let it consume you…
  
  If I was to quote a book title that you may have heard of “Its not about the bike”, it may put some things into perspective…
  - Jack Spoke
    
    Thanks Nitro. At 42 and with only 3 years of riding you have a huge margin to improve. I ride with 60 year olds who destroy me with their stamina and strength and I don’t think I am a sloucher. They have been riding for years but it is never too late to start.
    
    So good outlook ahead for you, for all of us in fact. Enjoy riding, train hard and diligently, take care of your body, learn and love the sport, but also put it in the right place in your life and it will give back in heaps.
Hasbeen

Seems to be the way cycling here is going, masters is the growth demographic…in Perth there are vets (35+) races every week where the level of A grade isn’t far off open A grade- except masters fields are 50% bigger. I’m just under 40 with a full time job and kids and well past the point where I can or even want to ride 20 hours per week. Yes, I could race open A grade but would have to be lucky to win, whereas masters I’m one of the strongest. Easy choice then.
- chris
  
  who is this has been,
- scottmanning
  
  May i refer you to Scott McGrory’s comment above;
  
  “The first thing the UCI should do is drop the ‘Masters’ tag, call it Veterans and raise the age to 40. If you’re under 40 and riding Masters A then you need to have a good look at yourself. That’s what Elite B or C is for!”
Joel Carroll

You could always race Masters C. But yes I agree with your point. The top 5 in Masters A would ride with the young guns in open A….a couple of those guys are over 40 too. Perhaps those guys could be hooked in to the Open A race. Then again it’s fun for the rest of us old dudes on 8-10 hours training to try and hold on as long as possible. And when you get dropped you can comfort yourself in the fact you’ve been beaten by a 35 year old who (a) has never held a job; or (b) hasn’t slept in 12 months
Chris

Coming from a soccer back ground where masters starts at 40+ I do feel that 30 is a little young. Being a 21 year old though I don’t have to stress about it for quite a while!
- SGW
  
  Running late to read this as work got in the way, then had to do family duty as Liz went to Karate last night, woke at 4:45am to taper for ToB and commute straight to work, will leave work commute home pick up my family and drive to Bright. Raced every VRS event this year and got on the podium once in C grade masters but it was at the ToSW. Was called a sandbagger although I have never won a B Grade club race ever. Due to points multiplier of Tours and other place have been given B Grade master at ToB. Originally started thsi series to qualify fgor Bright I love the weekend. Hindsight it was a mistake to do the series although I will continue it’s great. Carry over point mean if I go any good I could be in Masters A very soon. Neararly 50 years old. I have not really where to from here, I have not had the opportunity to earn my way up over time yet but could be donating to make number going forward. WTF!, where is the fun.
  Simon Gerrans is 33, so he can race masters, maybe Masdters should start at the age that is greater than the oldest Pro going around? What about a weighting system for age like in the TT series.
  Applogies if I repeated anything as to bussy t oread comments above.
  SGW
CLS

Coming from an mtb background, I was suprised to see Masters road racing begins at age 30. Given a fair number of elite riders are 30+ it seems a rather low age to be defined as “masters”. From an mtb perspective, masters is 40+.
Cam

How a 30 year old can be classified as a “Master” is beyond me. Two of the past three winners of the Tour de France would have fit into the Masters demographic at time of victory. I know we are not talking professional cycling here, but surely the age of the pro peloton shows that people are still in their physical prime well into their 30s.
MK

Having raced A my
whole life and now being 32 and eligible for Masters I find the whole thing
very strange. What I don’t understand is why we need to have an age imposed
identifier. Surely no matter what your age, if you are of a particular standard
you would just race that grade.

ToB has clear hurdles to racing A grade. Unless you train 20hrs per week getting over 3 climbs on stage 1 with the main bunch is almost impossible. But if you look at B
grade it is a super strong field and the quality of racing will be great. I’d have thought rather than having Masters A, B and C they should have had the following grades: NRS (120km stage one), A non NRS, B, C, D then maybe a masters category for those over 50. I still for the life of me don’t understand why Cycling Victoria don’t penalize those who race one grade at club races and a different one at opens.

At age 32 I just don’t see the need for me to race some special grade just because I’m over 30. I don’t understand why someone of 30 would (provided everyone is appropriately graded) have an issue with racing someone under 30. Imagine if CCCC banned those
over 30 from racing their Sandown Tuesday night crits!!!
- http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
  
  It’s a good point MK. Perhaps a simple A, B, C, D, E…grades and you slot in where you belong (even better would be the sanctioning body slotting you in where you belong based on past results)
  - Tim Rowe
    
    I’m of the opposite view. It should all be age based, not grade based - unless there’s no self-seeding. Self-seeded grading is universally a disaster.
    - Nitro
      
      I don’t see how age-based can be the way to go. As someone pointed out, Chris Horner was 41 when he won a grand Tour…
      - Tim Rowe
        
        The age categories basically become B grade. You would still have Elite, but you could then have some grades below that. ie, you have your Elites/As at the pointy end, then it flares out a bit, then it’s all-in again for what’s effectively treated as C grade.
      - Ed
        
        Please, please, please would everyone stop comparing Chris Horner (because of his age) to an Australian Masters racer, whether it’s just for comparisons or not… this just doesn’t make sense. The guy is/was clearly at the peak of his professional career, honestly this is tiring. Horner has no comparison in local racing, none, not at elite level or masters or whatever, the guy won the Giro for Christ sake, are you people actually listening! Apologies now if I’m treading on any sensibilities, but wake up!
        
        Nitro
        
        Ed - Slow down / No need to get that upset… I wasn’t trying to offend / didn’t think my comment was that inflammatory !
        
        Will not pursue discussion any further…
    - Harry Hanley
      
      What about the 40 year old new comer. He has to race in Masters123 and get blown away. Not very encouraging for him. But in Masters C he gets a fair start.
  - Harry Hanley
    
    For me, I’d rather race a 30 year old that wants to be in Masters A, than a 17 year old in B Grade Open that wants to throw his bike on the ground and take me with him.
echidna_sg

there are also the stay at home dads and early retirees (lucky buggers) who can train and recover in ways and at times that full time employees cannot. a mortgage, kids and 40-50+ hrs a week at work quite simply doesn’t give you the time to do much more than 15 hours. I’d love to be able to grab a 2 hour nap every afternoon and get a massage a few times a week, but that aint gonna happen!

That said, I have trained for over 25 hrs a week in the past with family, job etc, its all down to priorities!
- Daniel
  
  echinda_sg: Are you a trolling?! I’d love to meet the stay at home dad (or mum) that has a 2 hour nap and a massage a few times a week.
  Perhaps your last comment is the most revealing. You trained 25 hours a week with job, family, etc. Would I be correct in assuming the priority that had reduced time was family?
- Kevin
  
  Seriously, stay at home dad, almost 40.
  
  Between my two kids and grad school on the side I can put in 12 hrs tops, lots of that either pulling a trailer or riding the trainer. I can’t wait to go back to work so I have time to train.
  
  We all have our excuses lined up but I still prefer to be pack filler in A rather than ride masters.
Ray Martin

You’re unhappy with your ToB Masters win because the field wasn’t that strong. Now you’re complaining that Masters is too strong? Which way do you want it?

Every year you posting something like this about Tour of Bright. This year we’re lucky to have two posts - 15k TT rigs and altitude tents, now this post. The result is in-fighting in an already small sport we love, and an increasing opinion of this site having to resort to sensational sh|t stirring to drive more hits/comments.
I remember when this site was more about riding bikes than being Today Tonight. They were better times.
- Nitro
  
  Thats a bit harsh !
  
  I think CT is merely saying what a lot of us are thinking, and good for him for having the guts to write it down…
  
  I dont race, so its probably not my place to comment - other than to say the whole system is WHY I don’t race…
  
  That being said, I don’t think there’s a silver bullet answer to this one. We’re a competitive bunch by nature - look at how everyone (included) goes like hell in pursuit of ever better Strava segment times, when in reality its all just a bit of fun…
Rob C

The other point of view is that open A,B, and C grades can be left for the younger guys to race against each other and come up through the ranks. There are and always will be people in Masters categories that will be good enough for the open grades, but they choose to race against similar aged guys as they know the level, know the guys they frequently race against, and the peleton sizes will be smaller & safer. Plus U17 riders are initially automatically put in Open C grade because of their age, so in most cases they whip nearly the whole field.
CLS

Guess there is no chance of Cycling Victoria or Cycling Australia maintaining a centralised database of results to help determine a rider’s grading?
- Anon
  
  That’d knock half of A Grade back to where they belong. B or C to honestly earn their place in A Grade.
  - Tim Rowe
    
    And go the other way and put all of D and E in C where they get dropped and otherwise have a completely un-enjoyable time riding on their own.
    - Sean Doyle
      
      They would only get pulled into C grade if they were winning in D grade and like wise would only get pulled into D grade if they were winning in E.
      Same with the top end. You’d only get dropped a grade if you were consistently failing to finish with the bunch at least. If they brought the system in they would have to collect results for the last 12 months of racing so they could get the system figured then you’d have to spend the next 6-12 months working out the bugs and then juggle everyone around as the system settles and then you’d see the benefits. It’s going to cost time and money and they could save a lot of that by looking at the US and UK systems and taking the best parts out of them. They have been doing it for years. It’s not perfect but it’s a crap load better that what we have now.
- Robert Merkel
  
  They do have a centralized grading system. But my understanding is that some of the clubs -particularly the smaller country clubs - are resisting having a centralized database of results. Draw your own conclusions as to why.
  - Tim Rowe
    
    Certainly doesn’t help that when every single person I’ve spoken to about it who has queried or requested a re-evaluation has either been told no (minority) or just gets no response whatsoever. Why would you bother using a system which has wildly inaccurate decisions and gives people no recourse when CVs DB says one grade and they’ve never raced that grade, ever, and can’t get it fixed?
  - Callum Dwyer
    
    I’m a committee member small country club, and never heard of any centralized grading system. So you may have been mislead.
    - Robert Merkel
      
      Callum, sorry for the ambiguity, I meant the VRS grades, which were introduced this year.
      
      For the benefit of those who don’t race in Victoria, the VRS grades only apply to State open racing, they don’t apply to club races. For VRS races, once you’re allocated a grade, that’s your grade until you get promoted or demoted. I was able to request a demotion from MMASB to MMASC after getting completely smashed at Buller early in the year.
      
      For what it’s worth, I am not convinced - contra many others on this thread - that it would be a good idea to apply a uniform state or national level grading system to deciding who goes in which bunch in every club race.
      
      My comments are probably more directed at state open handicaps than scratch races, where as noted previously the handicaps seem like a lucky dip.
      - Callum Dwyer
        
        True you wouldn’t to apply a uniform state or national level grading system at club races, or at least small clubs like my where lot of our members fall outside current Cycling Victoria system.
        
        I may have been mislead, aren’t handicaps meant to be lucky dips?
        
        Robert Merkel
        
        What I mean is that, at least to my understanding, a well handicapped handicap race (or more to the point, race series) has the following properties:
        
        1) Bunches contain riders of reasonably even abilities that are able to roll turns effectively without the weaker riders blowing up too early or the strong riders dawdling. Without even bunches, handicaps are exercises in frustration.
        2) The gaps between bunches are such that, if riders ride to their capabilities, as most riders finish within a short period of time.
        3) Over the series, the placegetters come from a variety of bunches. Some handicappers have the philosophy that scratch should get up more often than other bunches - I’m agnostic on this but anyway.
        
        In my view, the system is falling down on point 1 at the moment, so even if they are “lucky dips”, they’re “lucky dips” of the wrong kind.
      - Rohan
        
        Our regional club has never been approached regarding the VRS grading. Only a handful of our members have been given a VRS grade despite most of them having ridden many State Opens.
        Not that it really matters as just having grades A through C for Elite and Masters is massively inadequate. The NSW system is far superior. It uses A through F grades as well as each grade having sub categories of 1, 2 and 3 (which really gives 18 grades. For example a top rider would be graded as A1).
AlexXSmith

I’ve long wished for Mens 30+ and 40+ No Kids versus Mens 30+ and 40+ Has Kids categories. The latter division is much much harder.
- donncha
  
  Let’s end up like triathletes, with 5yr age groups and a special category for fat people.
  - AlexXSmith
    
    That’s clearly not what I propose. Yet, triathlon has much higher participation by women, so they are doing something right.
    - jules
      
      it’s well known that women prefer to dodge kid’s pee in lap pools than cars on the road while riding their bike. i doubt the grading has much to do with it.
      - AlexXSmith
        
        Usually trolls are smart enough to be more subtle. And witty. You are neither.
        
        jules
        
        just for the record - i was making a serious point - perceived lack of on-road safety is a known barrier for women’s participation in cycling.
        
        AlexXSmith
        
        Triathletes around here train and race not the road. Your argument is invalid even before we discuss the pee in the pool “joke.”
    - donncha
      
      You propose adding finer groupings. How is having a “with kids/without kids” distinction different from say the “over 100kg/under 100kg” distinction in some triathlons? It’s not. It’s basically the same thing; create a splinter group for those who aren’t able to compete in the original.
      - AlexXSmith
        
        I don’t propose a Clydesdale division, like mountain bikers or some triathlons do, though I understand, as it aids participation.
        
        Nor do I propose 5 year increments. That, from a physiologic understanding, is unrealistic and does indeed lead to too many subgroups.
        
        But there is a difference in life commitments in the real amateur world of sports. This helps with participation as well.
        
        And participation helps grow a sport. Very few can spend the time and money to be elite racers. But a sport benefits from inclusiveness, not exclusiveness.
    - ed-sydney
      
      Apparently that’s because they sell tris to women as being your best, going for a PB. Road racing is pretty unforgiving when you get dropped
      - Tri-harder
        
        The fact is triathlon is a fitness competition, if you want to run, ride and swim averagely then you do it. Oh, and if you want to bore people in the office and buy silly merchandise to show everyone, then do Ironman.
        
        As Kenny Powers said, “I ain’t trying to be the fittest person in my street. I’m an athlete, I do sport”.
    - Bracksy
      
      So is Crossfit, which is a fitness competition just like triathlon.
      
      Seriously dude, if you want to do a sport pick one. Don’t claim a bit of each done pretty badly is a sport.
      
      Oh well, I’m off to watch You Tube clips of triathletes and their bike “skills”.
Robert Merkel

At the risk of being impolite, deal with it.

Of the 700-odd riders heading to Bright this weekend, 650 of them will be pack fodder. I’l be one of them, and there is essentially nothing I can do about that. Even if I trained 20 hours a week, I still don’t think I’d podium Masters C, let alone a more competitive grade. I just don’t have the genes to do better.

So I just set myself the goal of doing the best ride I can, and content myself with that. This year, that may be pretty woeful, given three weeks of illness-interrupted training, but I’ll be happy if I give it my all and don’t make any stupid mistakes.

The grading/handicapping question is worthy of an essay in itself, but, briefly, if you think the current Masters gradings are problematic, previous years’ were ludicrous from the point of view of balanced pelotons. In the past, I’d be in the same Masters’ bunch as you, Shane Miller - and if Cadel wanted to race Masters at TOB that’s where he’d end up too.
Liam O’Dea

I’ll be Masters B this year. I look at it from the point of view that Masters A is for the age groupers at the pointy end of the competitive spectrum; those that have the time, motivation and commitment to the sport that I no longer have (life gets in the way sometimes). I’ve never looked to the rules to explain my worsening results.

Should someone with the available resources, who follows all the rules, be punished or ostracised because they have more skin in the game than I do? Doesn’t seem right to me.

Does the altitude tent, etc. make them seem like a bit of a knob? Maybe, but it’s not my problem.
Anonymous

Unfortunately there will alway be examples of ‘sandbagging’ in the current system which heavily relies on self-grading. For example, you only need to look at one rider who has won multiple CV Elite B grade races by huge margins this year and still hasn’t moved up to A grade. Won’t say who it is but most people will know who I’m talking about. At the end of the day it’s up to the CV handicappers to ensure this stops happening…
- jules
  
  i heard a rumour that person asked to be moved up but in one instance was denied the request by CV. can’t verify, but it isn’t automatically always the rider’s doing.
  - Bag of sand
    
    Given said person started themselves in C grade…not sure how true that story is…
    - jules
      
      where else would he start? don’t know the person but i think he really was starting. (obviously with a high level of fitness)
  - Rob C
    
    Yes, due to CV grading he had to get to 45 points to move from C to B, and after requests by him to move up he was left in his grading that CV gave him.
ed

Im glad ToB has changed the Masters set up this year. Ive ridden M123 twice (pre babies & post babies) and the results were indicative of the time I was able to put into my training. With two babies 250km/week is a real challenge for me - all the stars have to allign. And I know there are plenty of other M!23 riders doing 400km+/week - how do i compete against that?
I wasnt going to bother with Bright this year as getting dropped on Rosebwhite climb is no fun & just plain depressing. So Im happy to be able to be doing Masters C. Sure it will be tough (and it is supposed to be) but for someone who has done ToB four times since 2006 and always done 25mins for the TT I reckon Masters C its the right grade for me.
The TT times for M123 are amazing and really some of those guys could be competive in A grade elite. Good luck to those guys - I wish i had the same level of fitness.
Greg Ski

I find this article interesting. At the very beginning you say you love the journey to the race more than the race itself. OK. Great.

But then you spend the rest of the article, to use your very own vocabulary, whinging. :p

I think you need to look at the motivation behind you doing the race. It sounds to me like the only way you’re going to stay motivated is if you do well in the race.

My 2 cents.
Steve G

Christ… I’m glad I don’t compete. This topic is a shitstorm.
- Race Control
  
  And why it is frustrating as a race promoter to read posts like this. The irrelevant fighting between participants is not a good look. We struggle to get sponsors as it is. Some even read this site.
  
  Can CT maybe post about the A Grade Elite battle? Can Clark back it up? Will Canty surprise us all again with a solo hilltop victory?
  - http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
    
    Not intended to piss off race promotors. I’m just bringing up the subject of conversation amongst every group I ride with. Would you rather keep it quiet but still there?
    
    On Friday we will be publishing a piece that’s hopefully more to your liking.
    - Aaron Smith
      
      Doesn’t piss me off. The better I can understand everyone’s feeling the better we can tailor an event. Hence the reason for Masters ABC & a 6+ category this year in the Tour of Bright.
  - Robert Merkel
    
    As a race promoter, might I suggest you’re misunderstanding your market? ToB is a participant event, not a spectator one. And I don’t really care that much about whether Clark or Canty wins A grade. I care more how I go against my mates whom I race against on a regular basis.
    
    Of course there is going to be grizzling about grading. It’s the nature of the beast. For what it’s worth, I don’t think the CV grading is that bad (there have been a couple of spectacular anomalies, but overall it’s not been too bad), but everybody would like the opportunity to win, and with grades of nearly 100 riders each only a tiny fraction of riders in each grade will have the chance to do so, and superior riders in the higher grades won’t.
  - jules
    
    i think you’re missing the point - if i were you i’d take the level of interest as a positive
  - Steve G
    
    If it makes you feel better, I’m not even part of a club.
    I’m a naturally competitive person and love the whole deal, no matter what the sport, and I’m also a good loser who won’t dwell… but after reading the entire responses here over the last day and a bit, I’m glad I’m not a member of a club and any slight consideration I had for entering a competition (in the back of my head whilst i day dream) is definitely gone. It all sounds a shambles, whether it’s all first world problems or not.
    I can go out and do a ride along the local bike track and consistently try to beat my PB’s and have fun; it’s usually when the three blokes overtake, obviously training for something, and mutter like ‘Fred’ (whilst ironically wearing some pro team kit, I never realised Tassie was home to so many pro’s off-season) that I realise the wanker factor is probably generally high in clubs and competition, as it is for most sports.
    Personally, I deal with enough wankers from 9-5, I’ll be fucked if i’m going to waste my precious free time associating with them more than I have to!
    
    *edit - I was going to go back and correct my atrocious grammar, but I can’t be arsed… sorry. I was day dreaming of my ‘fat guy special’ for CT where I get to fondle awesome bikes and do an awesome ride whilst I wrote my reply.
    - Robert Merkel
      
      It’s really not that bad.
      
      Tour of Bright brings out the angst for a lot of reasons:
      
      * It’s the biggest and most prestigious graded amateur race of the lot (IMO). Consequently *everybody* wants to do well.
      * It exposes issues with grading like no other race because it throws so many riders who don’t compete against each other regularly in together.
      
      Local crits or club road racing is a completely different kettle of fish. You ride (mostly) against a similar group of people, week in, week out. You win, you take your $50 in an envelope and get promoted. You get dropped, you go back a grade. I won’t claim it’s angst free (no sporting competition is) but the grading angst is a lot lower.
      - Steve G
        
        I’ll grade you buddy…. I’LL SANDBAG!
        I dunno what any of that crap really entails obviously.
        I’ll just ride on my own. I’m pretty annoying anyway.
        
        … wait, $50!? I’m in… so worth it.
Clinton

Winning feels good, if you are on the upward trajectory as a competitor then you should work your way to ever harder grades chasing that feeling.

When you cant win anymore, stop and enjoy the race at that level until you cant keep up, then drop back.
When you are on the downward trajectory enjoy the race as you slide backwards, if you win it will still feel good but don’t delude yourself, its just a blip curve on the slide out the back door.
Willie

As a rider who has come up the ranks from late teens and is about to ding 40. I’ve experienced everything that’s been mentioned here. What I find difficult to understand is how in Qld at least the grading system works.

I believe its the grading system which is slowly strangling the racing scene for the masters and C graders. Especially the latter when they stick the u17/19 kids in and they destroy the field. While i do not know it all that well a system similar to the US. Where a ride earns points towards an upgrade or downgrade appears to be a lot fairer method of determining grading.
As for the age thing I do agree 30 is a little low for “Masters”. But then again is it really needed if an effective fair system in used and honored? This system would need nationwide implementation and support from all states. But then again I might win Lotto tonight so I can go back to my 600+km a week training schedule.
James Dunn

Wade, you’re raising a valid point but not a new one. To a certain extent, it comes back to “Grading, how should it be managed?”

You are looking at differing levels of opportunity/commitment/appetite to focus on bicycle racing, but the reality is that these issues exist in Elite level racing also. Should a “pretty good” 29 year-old have to race against an already Professional 19 y.o. whipper-snapper? When is a B-grader a B-grader? Should there be overlap between grades? How do you get demoted?

There is a grey zone in A-grade, where you aren’t going to win, but you’d probably be embarrassed to race in B-grade in case you *DO* win. I’m not surprised to hear that this zone exists in Masters A-grade also.
krashdavage

This conundrum (and my fragile ego) is why I no longer race. But if you’re not happy racing against those M1′s then they should either have separate races per category (logistically complicated if not impossible at ToB) or you drop to Masters B or go Open C or D? That’s if your ego will allow it. :-)
Andy Capp

Cycling is a cruel sport. There can only be a handful of riders in the results in each grade over the weekend. Does that mean the other 90 in each grade have to go down a grade ? Not every entrant in each grade can win the race. Drop a grade if you are not up to Masters A anymore but don’t point the finger at those that are at the pointly end of A grade. And…be prepared to be spanked by some sandbagger in Masters B !!

FWIW “Masters” should be 40 plus i reckon. And grading masters rather than aged based grades is a huge step forward.

But, get this. It is reliant on a handicapping and grading system that actually works !! CV let us down here. Big Time. It is a disgrace. The “handicapping” is non existant and random at best and they dont seem to care. Some of the biggest races of the year they run are handicaps and the marks are all over the place. IT needs to be addressed or they should not run handicaps.

Go race with a local club or Northern Combine and chances are they will have you in a good bunch of similar ability. It is because they have a bunch of volunteers who race and care and work hard building a rider results database. Our state body should be leading the way for the $ they charge but in my experience it is seriously lacking.
- Robert Merkel
  
  This. Grading in the CV Open scratch races is not too bad. Handicapping in CV Open handicaps is a bit of a lucky dip.
  
  But, as previously mentioned, I believe that this is at least in part due to some clubs being less than forthcoming about the results of their members in club racing.
Tom Leaper

As a representative of CA Athlete’s Commission with an interest in the Masters Commission this topic is of great interest. It’s great to see such passionate debate. My background has been one of racing at the highest level professionally where success was limited due to the quality of competition. To strive to be amongst the best and then get a result was the intention. Since returning to domestic level racing, the option of competing at masters level only made sense to me as a way of increasing the participation rates at events. I feel riders should at every opportunity push to compete in the highest grade possible. Whether that means grades or age group in elite or masters, to me there is more satisfaction in racing the best riders. Your far more likely to race faster for longer and give a greater effort which ultimately is what testing yourself at races should be about.
I’ll be at Bright in Mens A. I bet the top Masters A riders will wonder at the end of their tour how they might have finished in the elite grade.
- http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
  
  Now you’re riding Masters A Tom? You could race the Giro again if you wanted to.
  
  This deserves a whole whining post on it’s own ;-)
  
  Hope you smash the guys at the front. See you there.
- Scott McGrory
  
  That’s what I’m talking about, good on you Tom.
- M knoff
  
  Well put Tom.
- Harry Hanley
  
  Agreed. Can I also say that the Masters A, B, C system in my view is far better than the age based system. The aged based system guarantees that ABC&D graders are put together and the lesser riders are seriously disadvantaged, discouraged, etc.
  
  Women’s Masters is even worse with far fewer riders. You get fields of 3 rider vying for the podium, what a joke. Do people want a medal or do they want to ‘race’. Oddly some just want the medal, 1st of 1… Mystifying.
  
  Steggles is now coaching a very capable Women’s master of 59. Where can she race?
  
  People need to understand a bike race is NOT like a triathlon. The quality of the peloton plays an enormous role in the race. A triathlon may have 1000′s are ‘participants’, but they are to the most part completely independent of one another. By all means give the first 50+er a tin of biscuits or whatever.
- Sean Doyle
  
  Yep, fully agree. I’m always comparing my mtb laps against the elite guys when I race. It’s an ego thing and I’m struggling to let go of ‘the dream’. I’m supposed to race masters there (i’m 42) but prefer to go up(?) to Vets and race, usually so I can get an extra lap in but also to really push me. To be honest I wasn’t winning in Masters on the mtb but preferred the extra race time. I am hoping this coming year I might get fit enough to race a few events in Elite but we’ll see about that.
Rosco

I wonder what some masters riders would think if Cadel Evans decided to rock up at Bright and he chose Masters A……
He is old enough to after all.
- Harry Hanley
  
  It would be brilliant
on_the_rivet

British cycling had a simple points based grading system back in the pre internet days, results hand written and posted, licences updated every time you got a result. Why CA can’t implement a system in this day and age is beyond me. The grading system is a joke.
Barry Dawson

Lucrative business racing in masters A, if you don’t win and get the prize money how else can you pay for your coach.
randomthoughts

i remember either last year or maybe the year before Masters 123 passed ‘B’ grade like they were standing still.

This caused alot of issues on the road and also the breakaway in ‘B’ got away due to the hold up…. there was talk that due to the level of the Masters riders they should have left before ‘B’

Understand its now Masters ‘A’ but agree that maybe consideration should be taken as to what a Masters rider is.
- jules
  
  all the grades are competitive these days. often the pace is down to someone deciding to animate a grade - this can lead to lower grades passing higher ones (a chronic problem in crits). you won’t solve that by rearranging the start order alone.
Jim

Why not hand out ribbons to everybody like they do at little athletics ?

Is it really better to come first in D grade (or whatever it goes down to) than ride in a higher grade and improve yourself ?
Dan

WA has a decent system of allowing you to race up a grade but require that you prove your uncompetitiveness in your current grade if you want to race down a grade (e.g. results, time away from the sport, illness, etc).
For tours a good approach is to start the tour off with a prologue to seed riders into grades. If people really want to hold back on the TT to then sandbag a lower grade than so be it, but experience has shown that people’s competitive nature takes over and they aren’t prepared to do this.
ed - sydney

good on the ToB for giving Masters grading a go. I have done M123 twice (once before babies and once after) and the results varied significantly - no hiding in those hills when you are doing limited km. With two babies under 2.5 years 200km/week is a good week for me and all the gods have to allign for that to happen.
in the four times i have done ToB i have always ridden around 25 mins for the stage 2 TT - i think that is fair proof that i am not cheating anyone by riding masters c. im 38 and like riding guys of a older age rather than the younger kids.
what if they decided grades for masters after the tt? top 100 from the tt go into masters a grade and so on. would the stronger riders sit up for the tt in the aim of riding a lower grade? i dont think so.
- Tim Rowe
  
  Using the TT sounds like an obvious solution, but it doesn’t really work correctly. Some people are strong TTers, others are strong crit riders and/or spinters, or climbers. The skill/fitness type required to stay with a bunch - those small sprints, ability to keep a high heart rate for a short period, and stay intact, versus consistently sitting at a high output, are very different abilities.
  - http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
    
    I would be in F grade if it were up to my TT results
SSanchez

Grading based on age created sandbagging in the first place.

PERFORMANCE should be the determining factor for how each rider is graded. Bad luck if you are old and ride fast, like Evans, Horner and Voigt. You race A grade, regardless of your mates’ abilities.
Team sports are no different. For over 20 years I’ve seen B and C grade teams stacked full of A grade guns (because they were all mates) and totally dominate, and take home the flag. Their main reason is they can’t commit to the training schedule required to be in the A’s for various reasons, even though they can still compete at that level if they halved their training load, knowing all along that the club won’t condone this because it sends the wrong message to the younger players. It’s a tricky balance - the club wants them to stay and win a flag, but at the same time you have to be mindful of the sandbagging culture that can develop.

Why not run a compulsory series of grading races/events leading up to certain key races like the ToB? This may mean the races themselves need to be classified, or become known as a lead-up/prep race (like in the pro tour, or for the Kona Ironman). As previous comments have stated, this data already exists, it’s just a matter of collating and putting it to use.

Depending on the style of race, ie stage race, TT, hills, etc. will determine which races are marked as a graded event (eg. the Stratford to Dargo as ToB grading race) This will create a “biological passport” for each rider, and each rider will have to compete in a minimum number of these “qualifying” races to be eligible to compete and to be graded for the targeted key race.
- jules
  
  in their defence, CV and ACC have gone some way to doing this, by giving top 20 point scorers in a given grade for the state series a start in that grade for ToB. i believe this is the first year they’ve tried that, so it will probably take a couple of years to flush out the sandbaggers who gain entry through previous ToB results, but it sounds like a good step forward.
disaffected

How about the $340 license dissuading people from ever even getting the chance to race? Cycling aus needs to allow quarterly licensing and cheaper FFS! I think masters should at least be 35yrs, considering your average male reaches peak physical strength around 26-29.
Alchemyrider

As a 56 year old I don’t relish being grouped together with 40 year olds in what is often the only category open to me: Masters or Veteran.

I accept the point that some 55+ year olds have the physiology and / or can train enough to be competitive with the below 45 year olds, but those specimens are few and far between. I am not one of them.

It is a bit pointless comparing my relative performance to riders fifteen years younger than I am. I would love to see a category for us elderly fellows.
Kos

The UCI allow for Masters racing. In this country this sport’s governing body did something smart and acknowledge that the UCI’s age brackets for Masters racing was not the best method for grading. So hence the correct and proper introduction of grades. People race Masters events because the UCI permits it. If people dont like it, take it up with them. No use trying to argue why a 35 year old farther of two should not be allowed to race Masters A when his actually permitted to do so by the UCI. That 35 year old is not a full time pro, no, that person can not jump on a bike and train 20 plus hours a week and emulate TDF riders. But they can juggle their work family life to schedule in a program that will allow them to excel personally, reach their goals and enjoy the sport. If that means racing really fast, hitting a 400w 10min effort and winning a bag full of races in Masters events, than great. The sport permits it, sanctioned by the UCI.

You want to bring it up to 40? Convince the UCI and dont run down athletes who are simply pinning on a number on weekends. No they are not Jens, they are just weekend competitive cyclist and comparing the two is utterly idiotic.
- Andy Capp
  
  Of course you are right. The UCI have created the M1 category and anyone entering ToB or any other race under the current rules is entitiled to do so. And good luck to them.
  
  However, there is no reason why Promoters and CV have to use those Categories for bunches in races like ToB. I’d imagine they can set the point at which Masters are grouped at any level if they thought it beneficial and fair to racing ?
  
  My observation, since the advent of M1 and graded Masters racing the Masters fields have grown massively (this is of course where the growth in the sport is too. 30 plus y/o riders) but have a look at the fields in Elite B and C in some of the state series this year. Stratford to Dargo for instance. They have dwindled. Pretty poor in some cases.
  
  Kill a couple of birds with one stone. Force M1 and M2 riders in with Elite grades. Grade them A B C according to ability. Get it right and who can complain ? We thus support the depth in racing there and at the same time take the cream off the top of Masters A B and C thereby levelling the field for the old blokes.
  
  This is of course all dependant on there actually being a decent handicapping and grading system to make sure riders are placed in appropriate bunch. Which there isn’t so no amount of constructive thought or keyboard hammering will change things until that happens.
Jason

This is an excellent post Wade. It is the type of post that makes this blog a ‘must read’. Absolutely fantastic work. I would be willing to bet this goes close to most commented article ever.
- http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
  
  Cheers Jason. Polarising topics like this always get lots of comments, but not necessarily the intent. We got over 1000 comments in another article after Shane Warne hit a cyclist and he sent us his account of the incident. Now that was polarising!
Just A Thought

Maybe another grade? Put all the true pro’s that race NRS etc and call it say elite class and A grade as you would for your average A grade rider?
Simple minded cyclist

Can someone please explain to me the reasoning behind masters, vets, slash whatever you want to call age based racing? Surely the simplest way to sort racing grades out would be performance based regardless of age (juniors a different story). I have an ‘Elite’ license but I am about as far from elite as you can get, Club B grader at best. Is there more prestige in racing Masters A than Open C or B? Racing is supposed to be hard and fun, if it’s easy you’re in the wrong grade. What does it matter if you’re racing against someone who isn’t your age so long as your can perform roughly at the same level? Stigma of not racing ‘A’?

Cycling is an endurance sport (well road cycling), some people have an engine naturally, some people work incredibly hard for it. Those that have an engine and have the mentality to work hard and improve on their already impressive engine race A or are pro, other factors come into play but you know what I mean.

A-F, no age restrictions, national promotion system, drug cheats = life time ban.
- Bag of sand
  
  http://www.quickmeme.com/img/7b/7b6e4acb362e1f3a0aa166541822af761541d33cacb76f34f7c7867fd7366260.jpg
Jords

I love racing the TOB in my age group 45-55. I really have no interest in racing in Masters A. The TOB was one of the last races in Australia where you could race your age group and see how you did - v’s an arbitrary handicap given by someone who at best only knows riders from one State (and from what I’m hearing they don’t even know riders from Victoria that well).
Ben Johnson

I’ve always been of the thought that masters is for guys over 40 and no one else. Demands of fatherhood has probably changed my view a little. This is my first masters race. Taking a family up to Bright is a big expense, so to go up there an be pack fill in Elite A is not that appealing. When weighing up what race to do I contacted CSV about the ballot and the likelyhood of getting a start in A Grade Elite. I was told that this is a teams event and that the 100 rider limit will be filled with NRS and VRS teams, so basically I had to take my chances in the Masters ballot. I guess there’d be a fair few riders in the same boat as me.
That being said, blokes taking time off work and sleeping in altitude tents to win a Masters race do need to get a bit of perspective. If you’re that committed to your cycling, good on you. But perhaps you should be racing the best riders.
Nope

Although this article has nothing to do with doping, i recently came across these articles which mention the difficulty of masters racing.

This guy blogs about how hard masters racing… and one guy who was caught: doping: http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2013/11/23/doped/

And this article about some Cat 3 rider who was eyeballs deep for no good reason:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/08/news/in-search-of-relevance-a-cat-3-turns-to-epo-and-hgh_232611
Monsieur Pi Pi

Bugger, just spent all that time reading these comments, could have been training!
Ritch

Echo the comments to the effect that out of 100 riders, there are far fewer prizes so the odds are you won’t win. But if you measure your enjoyment by how often you win, then racing isn’t for you. There’s _always_ someone younger, someone stronger, someone more experienced, someone with more raw talent, more money, more support, more time and hopefully aren’t cheating. Enjoy getting the best out of yourself and your mates by racing as well as you can and getting whatever results you can scramble through careful planning, a crazy moment or a bit of luck.

Good luck to all the riders and hope for top quality racing in all grades.
Michael

Being a relative newcomer to cycling over the past couple of years I have competed in masters 1 category at the national masters event and am a B grader at my local club. I believe this sport is about personal achievement. Setting personal goals, getting a coach or devising your own structured plan tailored to your available hours, then putting in the effort and dedication to train and achieve your targets is what in my opinion it’s all about. I personally have felt great satisfaction in increasing my threshold considerably over past 6 months, completing events I previously did not, having a say and even getting some results at my club races. Everyone themselves is aware if they have improved or not, whether they have trained the best they possibly could have whether generally or in the lead up to an event. I personally have enjoyed racing against elite riders albeit getting destroyed by them and use this as motivation to keep working hard. If individuals drop grades to gain success then the results will show that they don’t belong in the lower grade. Sure they get success for 1 day but ultimately they are found out and should be reinstalled back to their aligned grade. There will always be those who feel hard done by or have been given a good break with grading, what is important i believe it to take out the positive experience of whichever race situation you re in and let it form part of the development we have as riders.
mattiek

Go to Bunnings…..get some quick-set concrete……

Fill everyone else’s frames and give them a little extra weight to carry round, lol! If they still kick your ass, time to face reality - hang up the bike, pack away the knicks and take up crotchet/flower pressing/lawn bowls instead ;0)
- Transalpen
  
  Hey Wade, just enjoy the racing for what it is I say. If ‘Semi-pro’ wants to train 20 hours per week in an altitude tent to take out Masters then perhaps that’s just a reflection of his priorities (not that I condone sandbagging). But maybe ‘semi-pro’ goes home to the altitude tent instead of a wonderful wife and kids. And maybe semi-pro has an undemanding but dull day job? I do get where you are coming from but at the end of the day satifaction from racing isn’t just about results, its about how you choose to race, and the kind of rider you choose to be.
  For what its worth, I actualy find Masters/Vets racing much fairer that I found junior racing 20+ years ago. At that stage in life, the riders with support (usually parents) had a massive advantage over those who had to scrape by on their own. I still race against some of the guys I raced against when I was 16 / 17 years old and although some of them can still beat me, the gaps aren’t so big anymore as the real world has somewhat levelled the playing field.
Henry

What you need is a category system such as:
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/road/article/roadst_Road-Categories_Classifications

you need to place top-10 to earn points and get moved up a category, and if you don’t make a minimum number of points in a season you get put down one. Simple.

Although now you have the arguments about how many points certain races should be worth…
“is your fourth place in a winter series crit really worth the same as my 4th place in a 3-hour summer road race ?”
or worse
“why is third place in a tuesday-night criterium worth the same as third place in an ENTIRE track league of 15-events ?”
Andrew Pickering

Motorcycling NSW & Australia use a grading system.. its not by any means great but it certainly keeps some of the Sandbaggers at bay!
OverIt

You’re really talking about a “First world” problem here Wade….

I’ve never understood competitive sport. While I do understand the drive to achieve, I don’t understand why ‘winning’, being fastest, strongest etc. is so important to some people, especially those (amateurs), that don’t do it for a ‘living’. In the case of the latter, is it simply misguided ego that drives the desire to win? Why must winning be associated with happy? It never ceases to amaze me how
pathetic people look when crying because they lost something…. 20 grown men on a football field crying because they ‘lost’ the grand final….amateur cyclist shitty because he/she got beaten again…. seriously?? Have any of these people read the paper and watched the news? There are people dealing with far more devastating
things in their lives every day than worrying about ‘winning’ something. Winning for some people is getting a glass of clean water instead of sewerage, and maybe a bowl of rice for dinner.

I was a late bloomer (from a physical point of view), and would say that from 30′s to now early 40′s I’ve become the fittest I’ve ever been, and many people have asked if I race, or why don’t I race. For the record I’ve no doubt I’d get smashed in a race, and I wouldn’t care either way, I simply don’t have time to take away from my family and other life interests, to then invest in training to ‘win’ something that is of no greater significance (in the bigger picture), than a grain of sand.

What I do have time for (from a cycling perspective), is to ride as much as “I” can. A week for me entails a minimum of a 3-4 commutes to/from work, and maybe a ride on the weekend if time allows. Seriously, I don’t know how anyone with young (0 years…. until they don’t want to hang with parents… ) children, can deprive them of the time they deserve from Mum & Dad by riding off for 2-4 hours on a weekend. Just my feelings on that matter…..

My point? Just ride your damn bike and enjoy it, and keep fit in the process. Forget trying to prove something to yourself and others all the time. Ride some social/group rides and Fondo events and if these are ‘timed’ that’s about as much as you need to know about how ‘fast’ you are compared to others.
- http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
  
  Agreed @Overit. Definitely not a life threatening problem. Everything is relative and we should all be happy that we have our health and the means to simply enjoy riding. But if that was all there was to it, cycling would stagnate and never progress as a sport.
  - OverIt
    
    I don’t think cycling would ever stagnate. Far more people enjoy it as a pastime than as a “sport” and I think we’ve always had that. Why does cycling, (among other things), have to be labelled as a “sport”? Aren’t ‘pastimes’ are much more fun? I may be wrong, but I’m pretty sure all things ‘sport’ began as pastimes, until human competitiveness, ego and $$ got involved…. and then ruined the fun (generalization). I don’t see many pastimes embroiled in drug controversy, corruption and scandal… is that “progress”?
    - http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
      
      I have to disagree. High profile events like the Tour de France is what captures people’s imagination and is often an entry to interest in the sport. Without racing and competition, the media has nothing to talk about. Remember, the TdF, Giro and many other races were created to sell more newspapers.
      
      It has to begin somewhere.
      - OverIt
        
        That’s an interesting point. I didn’t know that about the newspapers, (was their involvement beneficial to cycling or more to their own pockets? Who know’s and they most likely aren’t mutually exclusive). We’d need to survey cyclists to find out how much the media influenced them taking up cycling be as a racer or pastime. I know I got more into cycling without ever following any pro racing, that came later, but has certainly waned of late with all the bad press about cycling at the elite level. If you’d asked me a few years ago how many tours Lance had one, I would have had no idea.
        
        Maybe I’m part of a cross section of riders that train and commute enough to have well above average fitness, like to ride fast, love the high tech of a modern race bike, but have non other than a passing interest in the competitive side of the sport. Would be interesting to learn if many others feel the same??
        
        Apologies to drag off the specific topic of your post BTW :) Good discussion.
- jules
  
  humans need to achieve. competition is just one of many forms of achievement. it’s a free country and if you don’t want to race, i’m sure that’s OK. i’m a bit unclear on why you feel the need to rag on racing though. in truth, for many participants amateur racing is as much about participating than winning.
  - OverIt
    
    I’m not ragging on racing, I just think the “winning” thing we place so much importance on in society in general, is not healthy. Reading the OP about how seriously/obsessively people are taking prep for the TOB from a cycling POV gets me thinking about these things.
- Patrick
  
  The best single response I’ve read in my time on this site. bravo!
- inopinatus
  
  So you’re not interested in racing? Ok. This entire article was about racing. Please don’t assume that your motivations have to be my motivations too. I have my own reasons. Your entire last paragraph is imposing your worldview on me. Well, you can stuff that - I ride to compete. So you don’t get the why of it? That’s your problem, not mine.
Kos

Those suggesting that the current top end crop in Masters A should be placed in B Grade should think again. Part of the root cause to such problems is that the Elite A grade field is half A Grade and to be frank half B grade. At least a dozen in Masters A would put half the A grade Elite field to the sword. So if anyone seriously wants to re-calibrate the whole grading structure, start by demoting half the Elite field - then you will have enough room for those Masters A grade riders who some think should be riding Elite because they beat other old riders….It aint as simple as that. Oh and on the subject of altitude tents etc I know most of them, dont know where that story came from but there is a bit of myth making going on here. The times up Hotham and the ITT will be very telling. Compare the two bunches over the weekend and you will see my point
- echidna_sg
  
  Perhaps the half the A grade that belong in B grade are there because they simply want to push themselves and be challenged (as per Scott’s earlier post)… if there are Masters A guys excluded from A grade on the basis of no space in the category, then yes its a problem, but if not…
Wacky Paccy

We’re having this discussion in a vaccuum for no good reason. Let’s do some research and find the best grading system in the world and learn from it. I’d welcome comments or an article on how cycling grading works in other countries; and how grading works in other sports too. Golf seems to have got it pretty right for example, people don’t whinge about their handicap, they are proud of it.

For example, in UK cycling you accumulate points for every result you get and you need to have enough points at the end of the season to keep your grading for the next season. Higher grades attract more points, points are given down to 20th, and higher “league” races (eg: M2W, G2I) pay more points than lower leagues at the same grade, e.g. B grade M2W 10th has more points than B grade VRS 10th, which has more points than B Grade 10th at northern combine or a club crit. They know our license numbers…..how hard could it possibly be? and what’s an even better system?

There’s no intrinsic need for us to be focusing on this issue; so let’s solve it.
scrit

Masters should start a year older than the oldest rider in the pro peleton
Paolo

It’s plain stupid that Masters starts at 30 when guys in their mid-thirties winning world championships, classics and GT’s. Not even talking about Horner, but Evans, Hushovd, Cancellara, Gilbert, Boonen etc. they could all race Masters.
- Kos
  
  Guys in their mid 30s are winning wold champs because they have been racing full time, fully paid professionals ALL THEIR ADULT life. Comparing these individuals to cyclist who work for a living, those who took up the sport late in life and race on weekends is just staggering, actually very silly
  - jules
    
    i’m unsure this is true. there was a highly successful pro from the 80s/90s called dag-otto lauritzen who was an ex-paratrooper who was a late starter in the sport - from memory only at 22. it’s unclear (to me) that racing from an early age builds irreversible physiological advances. it’s more about building experience and know-how.
    - Kos
      
      We can argue about that a lot. Lots of studies have been released in the area of physiological advantages in starting early versus late (late 20s). But are you discounting the fact that a fully paid professional, racing 130 races each year, clocking up 30,000km plus each year, eating/sleeping racing push bikes is not dramatically different to a Masters rider in Victoria who pins a number one every weekend? Trying to argue that eg. Ben Johnson in his mid 30s, working full time with a young family is the same as Cadel Evans is utterly ridiculous. Comparing a amateur cyclist to a professional and trying to use that comparison to ridicule amateur masters cyclist is the one stand out feature of this article and this blog IMO. Utterly disgraceful - note I put my name to my comments. No hiding behind aliases (not a ref to you Jules).
      - jules
        
        i think we’re definitely getting our lines crossed. i understand the difference between a pro athlete who can spend most of his day in recovery mode and an amateur who can only train with what time and energy he has left over from the day’s tasks. on that front, there is little useful comparison. i was merely referring to the performances of pro athletes of ages 40 and even above as evidence that the physiological ageing process does not rule the human body out of performing at a high level until later than a lot of people seem to believe.
        
        re: masters racing categories. they’re based on age, which i’m unsure is a meaningful differentiator, other than being loosely associated with greater levels of responsibility (family, career, etc.) that do impact negatively on cycling performance.
        
        i certainly wasn’t ridiculing anyone, other than myself for being slow and inadvertently triathletes which one guy got upset about..
      - http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
        
        I don’t remember ridiculing amateur masters in this article. If it came across that way, it was unintended.
Barry Dawson

I have noticed the theme of points awarded in relation to races won/placed etc to determine grading.
As an example with Tob13 masters A has near 100 riders, with 52 weeks per year with a Cv or local club race on say each weekend at best how would some of the mid to back markers gain enough points to qualify for a said grade?
There are also riders who ride in a team who never actually are in a position to win a race due to the structure of the team or job they are asked to perform on race day.
The merry go round of grading has and will be discussed for years to come, and there are too many variables in place to micro manage the issue, all Cv or the handicappers can do is try to take care of the obvious riders that have been incorrectly graded.
Craig P

We all love the TOB, you can see that with 150 odd comments it’s a great topic. All you every here around Melb for the last 4 weeks are references to peoples TOB form, how much weight they have lost or how much kit they’ve invested in for a better TT time. Your LBS must make a killing this time of year, this race does more for cycling than any other race on the Australian calendar. These days TOB training camps are all sold out through November and cycling coaches and organisers are making a packet. Bright itself gets as much, maybe more revenue from the Cup weekend with riders and family heading up there to train in perperation for this event. It’s a gold mine and a fantastic weekend.
Fo the record, I’ve been racing here for 6 years and on at least 4 occasions I’ve planned well, trained harder and delivered an improved result despite now being 40 I suspect this year I will be close to my best year again.
The cold hard reality is though that this event has done so much for so many riders abilities and understanding of competion that the bar has significantly risen, rather than form and commitment dropping off as Wade you may suspect.
For example last year I was more the 10 minutes better on my ascent of Hotham than my PB but overall my place on the standings after 3 stages was no better than previous years.
Masters riders are getting lighter, faster and more professional year after year.
After never finishing worse than 35th in Mas123 this year I am listed as a MasB. My analysis of the field suggests thats about where I’ll be again, I’m ok with it. It is horses for courses and my climbing is good, but not great.
I suspect you’ll go ok again, because this race suits your abilities, all in all though regardless of your overall, like me you’lll be back and wanting to compete with the big boys becasue this race is such a good weekend and such a well run event.
I cant wait to tackle it again tomorrow. Wish me luck!
Rob M

I don’t have the time to commit to train much but training in itself is a great reward.I don’t feel any obligation to hit fitness targets but I love to ride for the sake of it.You should try it.
olmo

start testing these gear munching masters some of there performances are sus
- Teacher
  
  Just like your spelling.
scottmanning

I’m 38 and only started racing/training and riding beyond a commute 12 months ago. I have to say I am pretty gutted to be “the guy who can only afford 10 hours of training per week” Just bumped it up from 9-10 to 10-11 actually. How any married man with a day job can find 15-20hrs a week on an ongoing basis is beyond me. 4am start is early enough thank you and after the kids go to bed, and the house is put away for the night there isn’t much, if any energy left to spend with the wife. By 8pm I am begging for sleep but stay up till 9 just to have some time with ‘her indoors’. I’m home at 6pm, so that’s one hour with the kids, one with the wife. It’s nothing… in fact saying out loud is embarrising. At my (small regional) club, few if any are training more than I but it only get’s me to the top of B grade… The faster guys are all younger but since I’ve only got twelve months in my legs I like to think there is hope yet. At the end of the day I don’t really mind what grade I race in, so long as I am competitive in it. If there is no chance for a win, or even a placing in the lowest grade I think i’d give racing away.
Kieran

I’m 31 years old and I race in Elite. A few weeks ago I got touched up in Grafton to Inverell B Grade podium sprint by a 51 year old. Bollocks to you and your age-based assumptions about training capacity.
Paul Yeatman

As a master’s level rider myself I’m a decent C grader when it is
flat. Once the hills begin, I am out the back in short order. That’s
what killed me off in the Tour of the South West when it came to the
godawful hilly criterium. I do not mind suffering in a race, but
overall, I want it to be enjoyable while providing me with the
obtainable challenge of winning.

I received an invite to the TOB
thanks to being in the top 20 of Masters C on points, but did not take
up the offer. The hills mean I’d have no chance in hell of placing (not
even in the TT, which I am half decent at).

Having grades is
definitely the way to go in all events (excluding the state champs).
I’ve enjoyed the graded Masters TT series in Victoria for the past few
years and the series seems to get decent support. The only race in that
series I do not do is the TT up the mountain. Argh!

One thing
that REALLY gives the the irrits is having a sport where there are rules
and regulations that are continually ignored such as:
1. Do not cross double while lines
2. Wear only AS2063 approved helmets
3. Do not collude (teams collusion vs 2-3 riders in a break working together)

During
the State Masters championships in 2012, a photo used to advertise this
event post race clearly shows 2-3 riders crossing double while lines.

During
recent State Championship TT’s, one of the riders was seen clearly
wearing a Lazer Wasp, a helmet that is yet to pass Australian Standards
certification.

Point three is a joke with the “unofficial teams
racing” in most of the races. This sort of thing has destroyed some of
the C grade races. In one stage race I rode earlier this year, a solo
rider (who later won the event) was allowed to ride away and then IMO a
big group of riders blocked for the rest of the race. 25kph down a -9%
incline. Bah!

Women’s cycling also has similar issues to those
your article discusses. My partner is continually in my ear regarding
how she has kids, smashed one of legs up while horse riding (and thus
rides pretty much one legged) and her only training is “I’m late for
work again, ride faster” while most of her competition eat like
sparrows, have sponsorship, no kids and plenty of time to train.
Tricky Dicky

@cyclingtips:disqus It might be fun to do a look-back on the top 5 of Masters A and see if they fit the assumptions being shared here? I know of one who’s a lot closer to 40 than 35, got 2 kids under 8, works full-time, who’s training has to include a heap of commuting and who rides on far from the best kit available. Should he be in Elite A against NRS riders? Dunno. That said, I think racing under 35 in Masters is a bit lame when there are other grades to choose from.
Having come from the UK originally, I am surprised about the lack of science behind the grading here. It wasn’t a perfect system there but it was hardly a chore for the rider and/or club to keep the licensing body up-to-date with results and points so people kind of knew where they stood.
Dave

Great weekend of racing Wade. With the benefit of hindsight, the only thing that needs to be done in Masters A is to drop the TT. The couple of ‘young’ masters that specialise in TT and train like pros can do the Elite race & TT if they want. The rest race Masters. The racing was awesome and as I said, apart from the TT, the two mtn top finishes were won by a 43 yr old with kids and a full time job ( and a very supportive wife I would imagine). There were quite a few 40 + in the top 10 too.
- Leg Hams
  
  What about the sprint specialists taking all the sprints? So unfair! Remove the sprints!
  - Dave
    
    No offence Leg Hams but I didn’t think anyone gave a f*#k about the sprints. Climbers certainly don’t care as they get the glory at the finish. I think they are great as they give the guys who have no chance at the finish something to target and also provide breakaway ops straight after the sprint. At the end of the day, the TOB is for climbers or super fit all rounders.
    - Leg Hams
      
      Ask Parsons about the Masters A sprint competition this year. I wouldn’t be game to tell him nobody gave a f*#k about it. Saw the battles first hand myself after being totally out-classed in each and every one of them.
      
      Masters A was won by a super fit all rounder, who also specialises in time trials. A great rider who had the full respect of the entire bunch for his efforts.
      - Dave
        
        Agreed, a good all around performance. I like many others don’t think Masters1 guys belong in Masters racing. Young and in their prime, some training full time and racing against guys into their 50′s and many of us mid 40′s with kids and full time jobs. Race elite.
        
        P.I.C
        
        I think the 43 year old winning the two road stages in the Masters A proves that the new grading system (with some refinements to ensure people are actually graded correctly) is the way to go, rather than an age grouped system.
        
        I know he won, not only due to talent but because he trains intelligently but also very hard, committed, at hours and in conditions that most cyclists do not see or go out in because due to his other life commitments he doesn’t get the choice to do it at another time. Nor does he give himself the choice to not do the training.
        
        Five training rides on a borrowed TT bike might be more of an explanation for his performance in the TT….
        
        He’s not making any excuses about racing the younger guys with more time and less life commitments.
        
        Putting your wheel on the line and racing whoever else is there, after doing the training…that’s all that really matters.
        
        Dave
        
        You’re right re not making excuses and putting your wheel on the line. I’m pretty sure most masters are pretty happy to do that. After all, the motivation for most of us is to get the best out of ourselves with what ever training we are able to do and hang out with some great mates both old & new. Most of us aren’t there to add to our ‘palmares’ or to publicise their ‘incredible’ feats & victories of beating blokes 10 & 15 years older than them on a blog to all who will listen. Masters in essence is a group of has-beens and never was’s brought together through the love of competition, mateship and maybe because we think we can still compete like we did (if we did) when we were younger. Let masters race against masters and those in their early 30′s race elite. But I suppose, then they wouldn’t have anything to put on their blog. Masters1 is a ridiculous category that shouldn’t exist.
    - Sean
      
      @Dave you really do need to harden up and stop carrying on like a spoilt little girl. Pretty much everyone in masters has a life and family commitments outside of cycling, we all make sacrifices, so what? we all want to and love doing it. Your problem was most likely caused 43 years ago when you didn’t choose your parents as well as everyone else who kicks your butt. @Dave I can a sure you, a lot of us get a lot of enjoyment ripping the legs off whinging show ponies like you. It doesn’t matter if its an elite race or masters race, pathetic show ponies are fair game.
      - Sean
        
        Apologies Dave I see your not 43, I still stand behind my statement, age adjusted of course.
- Rob C
  
  Lets put weight belts on the climbers so they don’t get up the
  hill without busting a nut. Or make it “The Tour of the flat roads
  around Bright” so non climbers have a chance? Everyone is different, has
  various skills and things they are better or worse at. TT guys
  concentrate on the TT as they are good at it, sprinters on the sprint
  etc.
  It seems a lot of whingeing goes on from those who
  haven’t won, then automatically presume that the person who won pulled
  out every stop and got the professional cycling world to help them win
  it. Get the full story, see what sacrifices they have made to their personal life around work, family etc to get more training in, or what personal item they missed out on because they bought something for their bike.
on_the_rivet

Just had a look at the o/all times for the last few yrs in masters!!!

2013 - winner 4.41.35
2012 winner - 5.06.41
2011 - short course
2010 - winner 5.12.34
2009 - winner 5.24.07
- Leg Hams
  
  2013 had a shorter TT. Stage 2 was controlled by one team (mostly one rider) who kept the pace high all day. Not once was there a lull. Stage 3 was controlled by riders helping their sprinters all the way to Harrietville where the climbers took over. The pace was driven through the roof on the false flat resulting in fast overall stage times. Add to this favourable winds, good conditions, and a strong field, there’s the reason behind the 4:41.
Hugh

Given the research pointing to performance deficit at the age of 40 it seems logical to me to put the masters age at 40+. Thus reducing the overlap in abilities for riders in their 30′s. The regulation of grading should be pushed onto cycling vic; they maintain the grading lists and your results determine you’re grade. The cyclist should be concentrating on riding they’re bike and let the grading system work it out for them. With respect to Wade if he doesn’t finish in the points for 1 year per the vic road series he will be placed down a grade see the cycling vic website; it states:

5.4 Downgrades

Riders in Masters Categories may request a downgrade if they have not received any points in their category over the past 12 months.

Lastly wade questions varying levels in commitment to the sport and that’s fine those who can only dedicate limited amount of hours of training need to race in a grade that suits. It is unfair to ask guys in A grade who are as fit as fiddle in the mid forties to race sub par competitors

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ToB or not ToB?

November 27, 2013

by Wade Wallace | Photography by Jarrod Partridge