Zipp 404 Firecrest Carbon Clincher Review

Zipp released the new Firecrest wheels in the middle of last year. What's new about them? The biggest difference over their previous models is rim shape. These are not just a revamped version of the 404 tubulars. Zipp widened the sidewalls on the Firecrest. As you can see in the illustration below, they are very wide at the tyre (25.5mm) and even wider closer to the spoke bed (27.5mm). The large-radius profile is claimed to produce lower drag figures at a wider range of yaw angles (thus improving handling in crosswinds), better overall ride quality, and improved wheel strength. So far I can verify the first 2 out of 3 of these claims (it's too soon to tell with regards to strength).

Profile comparison of Zipp 404 models

What do I like about the Zipp 404 Firecrests?

One thing I’ve always liked about all models of Zipp is that they place their spoke nipples on the outside of the rim.When you need to tweak a spoke to true the wheel you don’t need to peel the whole tyre off. This was an especially big bonus with the Zipp tubulars. Many manufacturers place the spoke nipple inside the rim for aerodynamic reasons.

I’ve never owned a carbon clincher wheel before. Since I typically use carbon wheels during racing, I always went with the tubular version of whatever wheel I owned. Tubulars can be a pain in the arse, but they ride beautifully. They’re not the most practical option for the weekend warrior, but if you’re only using them on the weekends then this may not be a big concern. (I’ve previously written about the pros and cons of tuburlars versus clinchers in a post here.)

After using these carbon clinchers with a nice high threadcount tyre on them (290 TPI), it’s easy to forget that you’re riding clinchers. Now I can stop worrying about getting a puncture in the middle of nowhere and use this wheel for training and/or racing if I want.

It took a little bit of getting used to when looking down at the wider rim profile. I had this misconception stuck in my head that a thicker wheel would be slower. After some experience with these wheels I now realise that this couldn’t be further from the truth. When these get rolling in a straight line they are noticeably fast. Definitely faster that the Lightweights were. You triathletes reading should be salivating over these wheels.

The Lightweights accelerated extremely quickly out of the corners and were great for tight crit circuits. These Zipps still accelerate wonderfully, but the stiffness of the Lightweights is hard to beat. The Lightweights were beautiful climbing wheels too. However, when the Lightweights took a tumble, they were expensive to fix or were relegated to the garbage. Sensational wheels, but not very practical for competitive racing if you’re not on a ProTeam budget.

The total weight of the 404 Firecrests is 1,557g (718g front, 830g rear). That’s not extremely light for a set of carbon wheels, but that’s not overly heavy either. The aerodynamics and toughness of the Firecrest 404′s more than make up for their weight. They make an excellent choice for an all-round trainin/racing wheel for those who don’t want to mess around with tubulars.

These days you can get wheels custom built any way you like them, but mine came factory built with Zipp’s 88/188 hubs (grade 10 Swiss steel bearings) and Sapim CX-Ray bladed stainless steel spokes. The hubs roll along as smooth as glass and I notice it every time I take them out.

As with any carbon rim you’ll need to use carbon specific brake pads to get the best braking. I’m using cork brake-pads which work very well and aren’t overly expensive. When it gets wet outside they don’t modulate as well as rubber pads on aluminum rims, but they still work fine.

You can take a look at Zipp’s website for all the specs and aerodynamic benefits, but choosing a wheel is difficult based on comparing specs. If you’re looking for an all-round wheel you can smash up and down Beach Road with as well as take to the races, I encourage you to have a look at these. When I say “all-round”, I don’t mean “middle of the road” either. I can’t think of anything negative to say about them.

Prices (AUD)

Perhaps you should sit down…

Firecrest 404 Carbon Clincher $3,750 (RRP)

Firecrest 808 Tubular $3,430

Firecrest 808 Carbon Clincher $4,099

Firecrest 404 Tubular to follow very soon…

Full Disclosure: The O2 Racing team (which I’m a part of) is provided with Zipp 404 Firecrest wheels however the do not advertise here and I’m not under any type of obligation to promote them. I simply wanted to share my positive experiences with these wheels with you.

After using these wheels for one year I will need to update you on the quality and reliability of these. In short, I cannot recommend these wheels after experiencing the problems myself and my team have had. It’s not only us, there are two of my close friend who have bought them and will tell you the same. I’ve spoken with numerous bike shop mechanics who agree.

The problems are:

1. Spokes constantly loosening
2. Cones in the hubs constantly coming loose
3. the rear wheel flexes much , much more than it should. So much that the tyre has rubbed right through the paint on my rear chainstay
4. The final straw was riding down a descent and hitting the breaks to go from 70km/hr to about 30km/hr. Straight after both of the tyres blew off the rim at exactly the same time. Was it anything to do with the rims heating up? I don’t know. What I do know is that tyres slide onto the rim without any difficulty during installation and I have always been concerned about this. No one else has told me they’ve had this problem and Zipp tell me they’ve never seen it before. I was using Bontrager R4 tyres, but Continental GP’s and Zipp tyres both fit onto the rim very loosely. Other people’s Zipp 404 Firecrests who I’ve spoken with say the same.

Zipp have been excellent in trying to rectify the problems, however spokes keep coming loose as well as the cones. They even took all of them back and rebuilt them. The problems still came back though.

UPDATE: Zipp have confirmed a number of enhancements to the hubs and the rim construction to rectify these problems which they acknowledge. I have yet to verify these with longterm testing.

http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips

Folks,

After using these wheels for one year I will need to update you on the quality and reliability of these. In short, I cannot recommend these wheels after experiencing the problems myself and my team have had. It’s not only us, there are two of my close friend who have bought them and will tell you the same. I’ve spoken with numerous bike shop mechanics who agree.

The problems are:

1. Spokes constantly loosening
2. Cones in the hubs constantly coming loose
3. the rear wheel flexes much , much more than it should. So much that the tyre has rubbed right through the paint on my rear chainstay
4. The final straw was riding down a descent and hitting the breaks to go from 70km/hr to about 30km/hr. Straight after both of the tyres blew off the rim at exactly the same time. Was it anything to do with the rims heating up? I don’t know. What I do know is that tyres slide onto the rim without any difficulty during installation and I have always been concerned about this. No one else has told me they’ve had this problem and Zipp tell me they’ve never seen it before. I was using Bontrager R4 tyres, but Continental GP’s and Zipp tyres both fit onto the rim very loosely. Other people’s Zipp 404 Firecrests who I’ve spoken with say the same.

Zipp have been excellent in trying to rectify the problems, however spokes keep coming loose as well as the cones. They even took all of them back and rebuilt them. The problems still came back though.
- Notso Swift
  
  I take it that O2 no longer sponsored by Zipp then Wade? Nice to have free stuff but not if it isn’t fit for purpose. Still they will sell heaps to the Triathletes who have different priorities don’t put the same demands on wheels as Road Racers ;-)
  - http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
    
    WIthout getting into the details of our “sponsorship” I thought it was appropriate to update this review (there’s no sour grapes or anything like that - Zipp were excellent to us). I will get a formal response from Zipp on all these problems and update the post properly. You’re right though - these wheels definitely seem to be made for going in a straight line. From what I understand, the professional teams’ Firecrests have been build differently, but I’m not 100% of the details.
    - Notso Swift
      
      Sorry, would never mean to suggest or impose on the arrangements.
      
      What I meant is you can write a negative comment in a political way, and still be honest, or you can write it “warts and all” - the former is what i would expect where there is a ongoing relationship. Your review is more… open.. than some, but consistent with other reports I have heard on products produced in the last couple of years…
      
      On second thoughts It may be best if I edit my comments
    - Jon
      
      I bought a pair of 303 Firecrests a couple of months ago. I took your
      favorable initial review into account when deciding which carbon wheels
      to buy.
      
      So far I’ve only notched up about 2,000km on my new Firecrests. My rear
      bearings have needed tightening a couple of times. However, I do not consider this to be a problem. My Chris King bearings took a few hundred kms to settle in. I expected the same from my Zipp bearings.
      
      My Zipp spokes still seem
      tight, but I haven’t tested my spoke tension with a tension meter.
      
      I’m happy to report that my GP4000s tyres are yet to blow off my
      rims at high speed. I will think of your post the next time I line up a twisty, high speed descent. Thanks.
      
      I look forward to reading Zipp’s formal response to your letter.
  - http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
    
    WIthout getting into the details of our “sponsorship” I thought it was appropriate to update this review (there’s no sour grapes or anything like that - Zipp were excellent to us). I will get a formal response from Zipp on all these problems and update the post properly. You’re right though - these wheels definitely seem to be made for going in a straight line. From what I understand, the professional teams’ Firecrests have been build differently, but I’m not 100% of the details.
- http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
  
  Update (Aug 6, 2012): I’ve spoken to a Zipp representative about the problems and I’ve arranged an interview with the head of engineering and development at Zipp during Ausbike (October). I’ll get more insight into the problems I’ve had with the wheels then, but in the mean time Zipp has told me they’ve made some improvements to their firecrest wheels this year:
  
  - wider flange on the hubs
  - stiffer axel
  - an improved washer inside the wheels (where the spokes pass through) that dissipates forces better
brycerider

No good. Glad I bought a set of custom Enves on the advice of my local shop when comparing them to the 404s. Plenty stiff and rolling really nicely on Tune hubs.
Chuck

Wade, how do the 303s firecrest carbon clinchers compare? Would it be right to assume the same problems would carry over?
- http://www.cyclingTipsBlog.com cyclingTips
  
  I rode a set for 40kms once and I love them - just like I loved the 404′s. I can’t speak for their longevity and reliability however.
  - Chuck
    
    Thanks for the honest review.
  - Harryvolmer
    
    I interesting as I’ve had 2 rear hub flange failures on the 188 hubs, which gouged out my chainstay both times. Echolon Sports were difficult to deal with and too mOre than 6 weeks to warranty the wheels. Interestingly they thought it appropriate just to lace a new hub into both damaged wheels, and leave the damaged rim insitu. They were all heart tho and supplied new decals for me to apply to try and hide the circumferential gouges out of the rim… Now have a mentioned the lateral flex out of the new 188 hubs?!?! The new wheels have less than 3 months on them and had to have l
    - Harryvolmer
      
      Loose spokes retensioned twice… Never again Zipp
CLBlood

My wife has 6,000 miles on these wheels with Tangente tires since April 4. No problems; no service; tight and true. She loves them. She is only 112# and is not hard on her stuff.
Pingback: Giant Propel Advanced SL 0 Review | Cycling Tips
Pingback: Giant Propel Advanced SL 0 Review | Cycling Tips Japan
Pingback: Giant Propel Advanced SL 0 Review | CyclingTips Japan